PADI Specialties,did the course meet your expectations ?

To discuss recreational diving, training, standards and continuing education.

Did the course meet your expectations

YES
2
50%
NO
2
50%
 
Total votes : 4

Postby DonMarcosdeJuan » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:54 pm

Azza wrote:What about Pony bottles? Would that be overteaching? (Not that I necessarily agree with ponies)


Pony bottles have been an accepted part of recreational dive gear forever and are commonly used in the UK and the east coast of the US.

If you wanted your students to use a pony as an acceptable alt air source, then no worries, it is elaboration for the local environment.

Re the stage bottle, if the instructor wanted to wear it or wear doubles, then no worries, in fact great idea, particularly when it is not easy to have drop tanks (like on any tropical wall or where currents may make returning to the descent line difficult).
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Postby Packhorse » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:57 pm

DonMarcosdeJuan wrote:
Many wrecks cannot be penetrated.
I think most instructors should not teach wreck penetration as they dont have a clue how to do it themselves, it should be restricted to those instructors with some kind of overhead environment certification (as the cavern instructor rating requires a full cave cert).


I agree. But they do teach it and as I understand it a Padi instructor can teach penetration without ever penetrating a wreck.

Now if you are not penetrating what is the point of the course?

I think very few recreational divers should be allowed to penetrate wrecks. Overhead environments dont really fall into the "recreational" diving parameters.

See my sig line for my reply to that one.
I dont think penetration should be done without redundant air and the skills that go with using redundant air.
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Postby DonMarcosdeJuan » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:00 pm

Azza wrote:I teach penetration and I have never done a cave course but I was taught penetration on my Wreck course, and have run through the TDI Advanced Wreck course ...


I reckon that would do.

Azza wrote:Edit: I am choosy about who I teach it to however...


Would you teach Packhorse???

:D
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Postby DonMarcosdeJuan » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:09 pm

Packhorse wrote:I agree. But they do teach it and as I understand it a Padi instructor can teach penetration without ever penetrating a wreck.


scary huh...

Packhorse wrote:I dont think penetration should be done without redundant air and the skills that go with using redundant air.


or conlitinious line, of zero viz exit, touch contact, lost line etc etc.

I think that loads of wrecks can be enjoyed without penetration.

Anyone can penetrate a wreck, its not difficult, getting out when things go pear shaped is a different matter.
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Postby Packhorse » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:24 pm

DonMarcosdeJuan wrote:
scary huh...

Very. And the student would never know :shock:



or conlitinious line,

Im really glad that some ones spelling is worse than mine. :lol:


Anyone can penetrate a wreck, its not difficult, getting out when things go pear shaped is a different matter.

And thats where quality training comes in. (even self training). :wink:
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Postby Packhorse » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:25 pm

DonMarcosdeJuan wrote:Would you teach Packhorse???

:D


He does on many occasions. So does so many others here.

Hell I may even learn something from you. :lol:
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Postby Azza » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:28 pm

DonMarcosdeJuan wrote:Re the stage bottle, if the instructor wanted to wear it or wear doubles, then no worries, in fact great idea, particularly when it is not easy to have drop tanks (like on any tropical wall or where currents may make returning to the descent line difficult).

Cool Thanks.
I always try to add a stage bottle in on the AOW deep dive as my experience of diving here in NZ is that I hardly ever come back up the anchor warp due to currents. It is pointless teaching students to hang a bottle off the back of a boat if they wont be back to use it. I also prefer to teach Gas Management as opposed to having the bottle hanging there :lol: I remember sucking of the hang tank on my AOW :lol:

DonMarcosdeJuan wrote:
Would you teach Packhorse???

:D

:twisted:
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Postby Azza » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:31 pm

Actually I would teach Packhorse. We have had an informal line laying session with lost line drills thrown in so far. I still want to work on that with him and the others, then move onto no viz, sharing air in the overhead, touch signals etc...Its a long work in progress and obviously not an agency course :P
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Postby powley » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:51 pm

[quote="Packhorse"]Now I know you started this thread about Padi. But I have never done a padi course but I did do SSI specialtys.

Wreck was a joke. No penetration No line work. Might as well be diving on a reef.

from memory padi wreck dive 3 is all about line work and dive 4 is penetration with a line. You are the opposite to most Ph, in that you turn up for a course having already researched and learnt as much as possible about the topic, most turn up with no knowledge, nor experience and hopefully (but most likely not) learn more skills and knowledge after the course
death can be fatal
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Postby Azza » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:25 pm

******Mod Post******
Off topic posts deleted.
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Postby Andy » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:47 am

DonMarcosdeJuan wrote:I think most instructors should not teach wreck penetration as they dont have a clue how to do it themselves, it should be restricted to those instructors with some kind of overhead environment certification (as the cavern instructor rating requires a full cave cert).

I think very few recreational divers should be allowed to penetrate wrecks. Overhead environments dont really fall into the "recreational" diving parameters.



I'd agree with both of those. But I would add that it's important for divers to understand the limitations of wreck penetration.

Taking the Waikato, for example, which is were I prefer to teach Wreck. I do a lot of simulated land drills - line use, simulated air sharing etc. The intention is to get people to realise for themselves just how limited the pentration is that can be done safely without firther training.

I really think the only safe penetration on the Waikato for a diver without additional training, experience and equipment is the hanger. Even then, something can go wrong. I spend most of the wreck specialty around the hanger and get students to do a detailed map - how many exits are there? Where are they? How far apart? From each exit/entrance, what other doorways can be seen inside the hanger? Where are they?

A lot of this I picked up from a CD (Pete Mesley), and it was invaluable. Now looking forward to doing TDI Adv Wreck next month with Pete.

Some of the stuff I learn from Pete on this course will get turned into a land drill for when I teach Wreck.... as much as I would love to do lost line drills, air sharing through a restriction etc on a dive, that is way out of scope for the course but doing land drills that simulate this things to demonstrate the limitations (and why they are there) of the course I think makes sense.
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Postby snirpy » Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:06 pm

i prefer to teach wreck on the waikato as well, its pretty saFE, and light can be seen from most entries.. i allways obey the 40 mtre linear rule, eg- 26 metres depth 14 metres penetration allways with natural light in site.
i run thru line laying the night previous where we watch videos, and other media on the wreck, give them some history. the sat night between dives 1-2- and 3-4, the students sit down and plan there penetration thoroghly , its a really fun course and ive had 100% satisfaction from all the courses
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