Top Tech locations in NZ

A discussion on what lies deeper than 40 metres; technical diver training, experiences and recommendations.

Postby Xman » Mon May 07, 2007 10:41 pm

powley wrote:X, X, X is that a typo I saw, surely not my friend


Thanks Powley, good to know you're looking out for me.
ImageXman
Forum Moderator
User avatar
Xman
Member
 
Posts: 1007
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:24 pm
Location: Laingholm, Waitakere

Postby Andy » Mon May 07, 2007 10:46 pm

Martin-PK Divers wrote: It was our day off. :D


Sorry, Martin.... but professionals don't get days off. We're on show every time we're diving and have to set a good example. Instructors, divemasters and skipper can't adhere to the "Do as I say, not as I do" philiosophy.

Xman wrote:I certainly wasn't "offended", its just that as the owner of a dive operation, I think you need to be careful about the message you send to other divers about what is and what isn't sensible diving practice, thats all.


Totally. Particularly if you're telling people the next day how to dive off your boat. Why should they listen if they know that you "break the rules" when they're not looking?
Andy
Serial Poster
 
Posts: 4628
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:29 pm
Location: Auckland

Postby powley » Tue May 08, 2007 8:44 am

Packhorse wrote:
powley wrote:
Xman wrote: Sorry if i have 'offended' people. I felt very , I think you need to be caredul about the message you send to other divers about what is and what isn't sensible diving practice, thats all.


Martin, never be sorry for offending people in here, thats why we come back

X, X, X is that a typo I saw, surely not my friend


Hey! Stop stiring Powley!! Thats my job!! :evil:


Oh sorry Ph, obviously X put it there to make sure we were on the job and wind us up a little.

No worries X, Id expect nothing less from you :D
death can be fatal
User avatar
powley
Member
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:49 am
Location: auckland

Postby Martin-PK Divers » Tue May 15, 2007 11:26 pm

So there isn't one instructor here that hasn't had a student drop deeper on the 2nd ever open water dive than the first?

Not one of you instructor's ever has broken the 40m rec diving? Really? Liar.

None of you dived the Coolidge in rental kit? Or done +30m dives in dodgy rental kit in the tropics on a boat with no O2?
Martin-PK Divers
 

Postby Hybrid » Tue May 15, 2007 11:41 pm

Martin-PK Divers wrote:So there isn't one instructor here that hasn't had a student drop deeper on the 2nd ever open water dive than the first?

Not one of you instructor's ever has broken the 40m rec diving? Really? Liar.

None of you dived the Coolidge in rental kit? Or done +30m dives in dodgy rental kit in the tropics on a boat with no O2?


I'm not an instructor, so I break all those dumb "guidelines".

Though I took all my own gear to dive the coolidge!
User avatar
Hybrid
Member
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Dorkland

Postby Xman » Tue May 15, 2007 11:52 pm

Martin-PK Divers wrote:So there isn't one instructor here that hasn't had a student drop deeper on the 2nd ever open water dive than the first?

Not one of you instructor's ever has broken the 40m rec diving? Really? Liar.

None of you dived the Coolidge in rental kit? Or done +30m dives in dodgy rental kit in the tropics on a boat with no O2?


I'm sure most, if not all of us have bent or broken a guideline or two. My main point is that you can't be seen to do so, especially from your commercial dive boat.

I would not choose to do a dodgy "trust me" bounce dive on the coolidge, but I take your point.
My reasoning is that there are standards there to which agencies would have us adhere. By and large those guidelines help keep (especially novice) divers safe. If you openly flaunt the fact that you pay no heed to the guidelines, then you send a clear message to other less experienced divers that it is ok to do so.
When it comes to guidelines such as not exceeding 18m with an openwater cert, I don't think this matters too much. I think all of us concede that an openwater qualified diver with experience in a variety of conditions is more qualified to dive past 18m than an 8 dive AOW diver. I do think that diving past 40m (or there abouts), especially without redundancy, is foolhardy without the appropriate experience/mentoring/or training.
ImageXman
Forum Moderator
User avatar
Xman
Member
 
Posts: 1007
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:24 pm
Location: Laingholm, Waitakere

Postby Andy » Wed May 16, 2007 12:09 am

Martin-PK Divers wrote:So there isn't one instructor here that hasn't had a student drop deeper on the 2nd ever open water dive than the first?


Not me.

Not one of you instructor's ever has broken the 40m rec diving? Really? Liar.


Not on rec gear. Never been deeper than 34m.

None of you dived the Coolidge in rental kit? Or done +30m dives in dodgy rental kit in the tropics on a boat with no O2?


Nope.


That's my story and I'm sticking to it, guvnor.
Andy
Serial Poster
 
Posts: 4628
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:29 pm
Location: Auckland

Postby Martin-PK Divers » Wed May 16, 2007 12:34 am

Andy wrote:
Martin-PK Divers wrote:So there isn't one instructor here that hasn't had a student drop deeper on the 2nd ever open water dive than the first?


Not me.

Not one of you instructor's ever has broken the 40m rec diving? Really? Liar.


Not on rec gear. Never been deeper than 34m.

None of you dived the Coolidge in rental kit? Or done +30m dives in dodgy rental kit in the tropics on a boat with no O2?


Nope.


That's my story and I'm sticking to it, guvnor.


Publicly perhaps.
Martin-PK Divers
 

Postby DiveDiva » Wed May 16, 2007 11:24 am

Martin-PK Divers wrote: So there isn't one instructor here that hasn't had a student drop deeper on the 2nd ever open water dive than the first?


I have never taken a student deeper than they are permitted, according to PADI standards. On an OW course, I often took them to around 16-18m (if they could handle it) on the final dive,which is deeper than the first couple of OW dives, when the limit is 12m but that is within "the rules".

Martin-PK Divers wrote: Not one of you instructor's ever has broken the 40m rec diving? Really? Liar.


This I have done, one careless afternoon on the GBR but I have learnt my lesson! Before then, my deepest dive was to 37m.

Martin-PK Divers wrote:None of you dived the Coolidge in rental kit? Or done +30m dives in dodgy rental kit in the tropics on a boat with no O2?


I've never dived the Coolidge full stop and I have never dived off a boat that doesn't have O2, (as far as I know), whether it is a legal requirement or not.

In my mind, taking the risk just isn't worth it and this is exactly what gives diving in NZ such a bad rep. The "she'll be right" (I'll dive alone, without redundancy on antiquated gear and attach 50 crays to my weightbelt etc...) that is partly to blame.

It ESPECIALLY isn't worth the risk when you are responsible for people's lives (i.e. when you're teaching).

PADI, for all its faults, issues standards for a reason and if you work with them, they protect you, your safety and that of any student who entrusts themselves to you.

God forbid, if somebody dies on a dive, the coroner will usually issue a recording of accidental death if that diver has in any way been unsafe (ie exceeded even a "recommended" depth limit) then the dive industry gets critisised for not getting its message across effectively enough. This happened only last year after three deaths in South Island waters.

If a student dies on a training dive, the PADI standards are studied and the instructor's prudence assessed. In the instance of a fatality, if they followed standards they would not be negligent, if they haven't they would be struck off and most likely convicted of manslaughter.

I knew one instructor, a former member of this forum actually, who used to bleat on about dive safety and following the PADI standards but then used to do the exact opposite in practice. Coming from across the ditch where personal liability insurance in mandatory, they actually conducted training without it and their PADI membership and then post-dated students PICs! They also took another person (and another former member of this forum!) on 12 dives - many beyond the 20m mark - without conducting any confined water training or knowledge reviews beforehand. Again, in the event of an incident, (and none of us are immune to these), they would be liable.

I suppose what I am trying to say is diregarding industry or general safety standards or recommendations is either a really lazy or really stupid move on behalf of that diver/dive professional.

I have exceeded the recommended depth limit for rec SCUBA and I was lazy and stupid - I admit. I was also very narked and had I not had a good buddy, I may not be here today...posting this rant!! If I had died, the dive operation and industry would have been criticised- all because I, myself and me was an idiot. Trust me, the experience wasn't worth it and I am ashamed of myself every time I think about it.

IMHO PADI and other training agencies do exploit this (by charging top dollar for a two day drysuit specialty just so you can feel safe in a drysuit). You may argue you could "teach yourself" a drysuit course (well I do!) and if everbody was prudent; did their research and practiced in clear, shallow water with a buddy, then fantastic! But in reality, those aren't (prudent), dive to 40m on the first dive, stick their legs in the air for what ever reason and whizz up to the surface like a cork, exploding their lungs along the way! (Or are at least at risk of that if they don't understand the mechanisms of a drysuit). Kaz recently bought a drysuit off me and dived with it at the Knights last weekend and, as I understand it, used the first dive with Martin to kind of orientate herself to it and get used to diving in it - good on her! Incidentally this is exactly what I did with my first drysuit (until my course director made me do the course so I could wear a drysuit on my IE!!) so I don't necessarily agree with having to do this course, other than gain the "insurance" of having the cert card - I just don't think people are generally careful enough. You just have to google how many people have died in inland quarries in England due to something related to drysuits to get an idea of where I'm coming from.

At the end of the day, it is up to you the diver, you the DM, the skipper, the instructor and the dive centre owner how you dive, promote safety, ahere to standards and recommendations publicly or privately or choose not to.

That's just my 10c worth!

DD
Last edited by DiveDiva on Wed May 16, 2007 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DiveDiva
Forum Administrator
User avatar
DiveDiva
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:23 pm
Location: Pommieland

Postby Andy » Wed May 16, 2007 1:28 pm

Martin-PK Divers wrote: Publicly perhaps.


Not a word of a lie. The deepest dive I've done on a single tank is 34m, never dived the Coolidge, never dived the tropics at all - let alone on a dodgy boat and I'm paranoid about standards on an OW course.

Probably not the right forum for this, but I disagree about PADI standards.... they are, in some cases, more restrictive than protective. Standards that are open to interpretation can be interpreted to give better value to the students. I'm predominately talking beyond OW level, here, mind you.
Andy
Serial Poster
 
Posts: 4628
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:29 pm
Location: Auckland

Postby Martin-PK Divers » Wed May 16, 2007 6:06 pm

I disagree with everything :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, not always. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Martin-PK Divers
 

Postby Andy » Wed May 16, 2007 6:12 pm

Martin-PK Divers wrote:I disagree with everything :lol: :lol: :lol:


No you don't. Call that an argument? That's just contradiction...
Andy
Serial Poster
 
Posts: 4628
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:29 pm
Location: Auckland

Postby Martin-PK Divers » Wed May 16, 2007 6:18 pm

yes i do
Martin-PK Divers
 

Postby Andy » Wed May 16, 2007 6:21 pm

Martin-PK Divers wrote:yes i do


OK, Yes you do.... :wink:
Andy
Serial Poster
 
Posts: 4628
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:29 pm
Location: Auckland

Matai Bay Pinnacle

Postby ScubaDog » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:11 pm

Andy wrote:Matai Bay pinnacle - a beautiful dive when conditions are right.


I agree with Andy, this is a gem of a dive, the pinnacle just breaks the surface and goes down to 50m with several ledges and bommies around the base, outstanding dive, best done off Andre's boat - AtoZ Diving (www.atozdiving.co.nz)
User avatar
ScubaDog
Member
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: Auckland

PreviousNext

Return to Technical Diving

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron