Twins v Rebreather

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Twins v Rebreather

Postby Martin-PK Divers » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:47 am

I have been thinking. Those of you who have twins. Is the only reason you have twins over a rebreather the money? Can you see yourself going down the rebreather route eventually?
If so wouldn't it make more sense to go straight onto a rebreather if you could afford to do so? Or does the time with twins help when you go to a rebreather?
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Postby Flipper » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:02 am

Mmmm,, and interesting question. Clearly I can only talk from personal opinion;
Yes, I
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Postby Andy » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:15 am

Cost is very much part of the issue for me, and don't be fooled by the "it's really cheap to fill 3L O2 tanks" view of breathers - there are a lot of hidden costs! It's still the same price to get the tanks hydro'd, and then O2 cleaning.... plus batteries if you go for an eCCR... and then the sorb.

I don't think there's anyway you can justify the purchase of a breather in terms of "down stream savings", even if you go the trimix route. It's a toy, and the only way to justify it is to say "i want it, i will enjoy it".

The main reason I want a breather is that it would revolutionise my photography!

Distavantages of a breather, other than cost;

1. Can't teach using it
2. There is *NO* redundancy, so you still need some form of OC bailout
3. Too few breather divers out there - you're normally going to end up diving with OC divers, and unless they are diving twins or a pony then you are putting them at risk
4. Complexity - the KISS marketing slogan says it all, "the easiest way to kill yourself". There's a lot of complexity in a breather, not just in the setup and planning but also through out a dive - problems are not apparent when they occur - how obvious is a free flow reg??

I still want one, though.
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Postby Andy » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:18 am

Flipper wrote:Quite simply, I know I’m not ready for one. I can’t see the point in having a rebreather and using for the kind of dives I’m currently doing.


I dunno - I can really see the advantages;

1. Longer (even if shallow) dives without a deco obligation as the ppO2 is always optimal for the depth
2. Safety buffer - one of the big appeals of the breather is to be able to sit and wait for a silt out to clear! You've just got more time to deal with problems than when on OC.

I'd have one tomorrow if I had $20k in my back pocket.
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Postby Flipper » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:41 am

Andy wrote:I dunno - I can really see the advantages;


Don't get me wrong, I can certainly see the advantages of a CCR; being able to economically justify helium for 30m+ dives, and as you mentioned a constant optimal blend of nitrox;; I *do* want one, but with my current skill levels, can't justify one....yet :)
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Postby Hybrid » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:55 am

I'd have one tomorrow...the ONLY thing stopping me is cash. Rebreathers, to me seem so much more efficient use of gas.

Why learn all these tech skills on OC then have to throw a lot of that info away when you start RB diving? Learn all those skills first on CC.

I believe that RB's get a bad rep for killing people. The first thing that happens when people get killed on OC is the diver gets blamed, but the first thing that happens when a RB diver dies is the RB gets the blame.

I also think that a lot of divers think that they have to a great tech diver before they can use a RB, which I don't agree with either. Correct me if I'm wrong but you don't "need" to have any tech divers certs to learn to dive a RB.

With all that said there is a certain type of person that shouldn't dive them....People who don't look after there gear....people with.."she'll be right" atitude.

If I have to chose a RB or twins - I'd chose RB.
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Postby Hybrid » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:20 pm

Prerequisites:
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Postby Andy » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:47 pm

Flipper wrote:Don't get me wrong, I can certainly see the advantages of a CCR; being able to economically justify helium for 30m+ dives, and as you mentioned a constant optimal blend of nitrox;; I *do* want one, but with my current skill levels, can't justify one....yet :)


I think you're selling yourself short, to be honest. I don't think that you have to be a hugely skilled and experience diver to warrant having a RB, you don't need to go deep to justify one either! If you want one, and can afford it..... then why not??
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Postby Andy » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:53 pm

Hybrid wrote:I believe that RB's get a bad rep for killing people. The first thing that happens when people get killed on OC is the diver gets blamed, but the first thing that happens when a RB diver dies is the RB gets the blame.


Totally true. A lot of people diving CCR are pushing the limits of how we understand our physiology is responding to depth. For example, Pete's inner ear helium bend a few years ago resulted in a new compartment being added to the helium deco models. Breather technology is being used successfully in so many areas - firefighting and astronaut spacesuits spring to mind as top of the list, and we don't see many problems associated with those.

Most RB accidents tend to involved some form of diver error, often associated with the extreme depths those divers are at.

I also think that a lot of divers think that they have to a great tech diver before they can use a RB, which I don't agree with either. Correct me if I'm wrong but you don't "need" to have any tech divers certs to learn to dive a RB.


Again, I totally agree! A breather changes the diving we know - in so many ways. For example, you can no longer use your breathing to control your position in the water as it doesn't change the volume of the total breathing loop. It's a completely new skill set that should be divorced from being a "tech" diver.

With all that said there is a certain type of person that shouldn't dive them....People who don't look after there gear....people with.."she'll be right" atitude.


Spot on again. I think, Martin, you have to ask yourself is what are you trying to acheive with going to either a twinset or a breather. Define what you want and see which is the best fit.

For example, just because someone has done Adv. Nitrox & Deco doesn't mean that they can go and buy a breather and immediately do some big deco dives. You're going to need a lot of recreational hours on the breather to have the skills and comfort needed for doing deco dives.
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Postby Hybrid » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:18 pm

I'd say that you have advantage by not having done a whole lot of tech diving.

It must be hard having "unlearn" things that you've practiced to get perfect on OC.
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Postby Hybrid » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:21 pm

To get an idea of the work that you'd need to do.

check out this link

[url]http://www.apdiving.com/downloads/
[/url]

then go to the NEW training videos.

It shows you how to change your scubber, 02 sensors, batteries.
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Postby Azza » Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:55 pm

I don't want one. Twins are fine.
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Postby Flipper » Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:22 pm

[quote="Andy]If you want one, and can afford it..... then why not??[/quote]

Get behind me satan! I'm easily led as it is;; now I'm seriously toying with the idea of a CCR (as well as all the other 'lifestyle essentials' I promised myself at the weekend). Oh my, it's gonna be an expensive year :? :wink:
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Postby Packhorse » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:44 pm

I would like one but I cant see myself out laying the cash anytime soon. Mind you if Flipper really wants one and has to buy 2 so as to have a buddy to dive with thwn I would do the training, as any good buddy would.
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Postby silent solutions » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:02 pm

gave up on twins about 6-7 years ago and would not go back to oc again.yes rbs are complex and do have there moments but they also give you so many options to get out of trouble.My advice to any one interested is go and try one I think Pete Mes has a day for this coming up .I could dribble on about the pros and cons all day you just have to see whether rbs are suited for you and what you wish to achieve with your diving.
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